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Comparte este post en Facebook Tema: CICLO ENANTATO DECA WINSTROL  (Leído 5680 veces)
ChrisREDb
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« : 17, Feb, 2007, 00:48 »

saludos a todos los foristas de esta pagina quisiera que por favor  le echen una miradita a este que es mi segundo ciclo peso 75kg y mido 1.75 ademas llevo una dieta balancead a

******enantato*******
semana 1 a la  6   500mg  
******deca**********
semana 1 a la 4    200mg
******winstrol depot***
2 ultimas semanas 150mg

ANTIESTRO GENICOS
semana 1 a la 6 **Proviron 25mg + 20mg nolvadex**
POST CICLO
el post ciclo lo pensaba hacer asi HCG 2500 + CLOMID 50mg por 2 semanas pero tengo una duda ya que lei un ebook en el cual decia que no es muy convenien te que podria usar en vez del clomid???  el libro es "Bottomline Bodybuild ing" y aqui les pongo el tema:

Nelson Montana for Elite Fitness 12
CLOMID - THE BIG LIE
Like everyone else who has ever read a single book (or every book for that matter) on the
proper use of anabolics, I usually included a course of Clomid after each cycle. It was the
responsib le thing to do. So they say. There was just one little problem with this
procedure . It seemed to make the recovery and the return of libido, testicula r size, sperm
count, seminal volume and normal testoster one levels worse. How can this be? Maybe I
was just a weird exception to the rule. One doctor suggested I might have some bizarre
feedback loop that gave the drug its negative effects. Maybe I was crazy. Maybe not.
The simple truth of the matter is this: the thinking on Clomid is based on some very
sketchy evidence which has been parroted endlessly among the bodybuild ing community .
In a way, I'm at fault myself. Allow me to explain.
A few years back, I co-wrote an article with Brock Strasser called "The Steroid Summit."
In that piece, I mentioned Clomid and ejaculate volume. Where I was going with this was
the fact that I noticed a definite decrease in ejaculate volume and this would indicate that
Clomid wasn't doing what it was supposed to do. Brock replied "Oh yeah, Clomid will
definitel y increase ejaculate" and he went on to say how male porn stars are using it to
enhance their "bursts of drama" so to speak. We were tackling a lot of topics and I didn't
want to dispute his contentio n so I let it go. At any rate, wouldn't you know... the rumor
about porn stars and Clomid ran rampant. I started hearing it everywher e, even in places
unassocia ted with bodybuild ing.
I knew I couldn't be the only person experienc ing negative effects from Clomid so I did a
little personal survey. It turns out I wasn't as weird as I thought. Out of over 100
bodybuild ers I questione d, about 1 in 4 experienc ed in the use of steroids and aromatase
blockers admitted that Clomid didn't have the effects they were hoping for. Many also
claimed that Nolvadex, which has a very similar structure to Clomid, caused a loss in
libido and a weak ejaculati on. Even among those who felt it helped them, there were
complaint s about "emotional distress" and "weepiness", both of which suggest an
increase in estrogen. So how can anyone be sure Clomid is actually beneficia l?
Still, the rumors persist.
I was on a popular internet message board recently and someone was claiming that they
weren't getting back their atrophied testicles even after using 50mgs of Clomid for two
weeks. The resident "guru" suggested taking 100mgs for another two weeks. This line of
thinking is straight from the middle ages when doctors prescribe d leeches to cure a
disease -- if the patient got sicker from the treatment the solution was; more leeches!
Ridiculou s? Of course. Some things never change.
BOTTOMLIN E BODYBUILD ING
Nelson Montana for Elite Fitness 13
There are several major problems associate d with Clomid, as well as Arimidex,
Nolvadex, Teslac or any other estrogen blocker. For one thing, all these compounds are
indiscrim inate in how much estrogen they block. So what's bad about that? Well, the
whole point of using an anti-estrogen is to protect against the spillover of estrogen that
comes with the excessive use of androgens . If the body can't metaboliz e all that
testoster one, it aromatize s into estrogens . What the experts fail to address is the fact that
the amount of aromatiza tion varies greatly from individua l to individua l. If the steroid
dosages are moderate, there might not be any aromatiza tion of any consequen ce, and the
anti-estrogens may lower levels below what they were normally! And keep one very
important fact in mind. A little estrogen in men is necessary for a healthy libido. (It's
also necessary for other things such as bone density, skin tone, etc., but I can't think of
anything more important to most men than their dicks.)
More recently, it's even been suggested that estrogen may play a role in the prolifera tion
of androgen receptors . This may explain why some experienc ed steroid users claim that
they get decreased results when adding an anti-estrogen to their stack. It was once
thought that anti-estrogens such as Nolvadex decreased IGF-1, but this has not been
validated with any concrete evidence. Neverthel ess, studies done on rats found that
androgen receptor binding was dramatica lly increased after the administr ation of
estradiol, increasin g the anabolic potency of the androgeni c steroid. If nothing else, this
shows that estrogen is, on some level, directly or indirectl y involved in the process of
promoting muscle growth. There's also the added element of strength and size gains due
to the water retention that estrogen inflicts. And just as a kicker, anti- estrogens may also
increase sex hormone binding globulin which is the last thing you want when coming off
a cycle.
In the case of Clomid, the effects may be even worse than other anti-estrogens since
Clomid is a mild estrogen itself. The basic theory behind its use (which is sounding more
and more stupid every day) is essential ly that the Clomid will occupy the estrogen
receptor sites thus disallowi ng the formation of more estrogen. Maybe. What's more
likely in cases where estrogen levels are normal, the Clomid will simply add more
estrogen. This may the reason for some people's apparent aversion to Clomid and its
estrogen-like side effects.
Even if Clomid did lower estrogen, there's no evidence that lower estrogen will
necessari ly lead to increased testoster one, yet this is the premise which everyone follows.
Clomid has also been known to produce a decrease in the LH response to LH releasing
hormone. This is something that has been known for a while, (findings on this date as far
back as 1978) yet curiously ignored. Naturally, studies aren't conducted to benefit the
bodybuild er on steroids, so we must learn to read between the line sometimes . In doing
so, conclusio ns can be drawn. All too often steroid gurus draw them incorrect ly.
BOTTOMLIN E BODYBUILD ING
Nelson Montana for Elite Fitness 14
The notion of increased sperm count is also one of contentio n. Allow me to get technical
for a moment and break my own rule about reference s for a second while I cite this
quote from a study done on Clomid.
"Treatments with idiopathi c oligosper mia for six to nine months resulted in a significa nt
increase in gonadotro pin testoster one and estradiol levels. A significa nt increase in
sperm density was observed only in subjects with low sperm count below normal basal
FSH levels. In cases where sperm density increased, FSH levels decreased, suggestin g an
inhibitor y effect."
What this suggests in plain English is that not everyone reacts to Clomid treatment in the
same way and sperm levels must be abnormall y suppresse d for the drug to be of any
benefit. And even in situation s where that is the case, the side effect was lowered Follicle
Stimulati ng Hormone, which as you may know, controls the amount of Leutinizi ng
Hormone we release which in turn regulates how much testoster one we have. This is why
so many bodybuild ers claim to crash after coming off of the Clomid.
Judging from this informati on it's clear that Clomid, at best, is a crap shoot and its
benefits, if any, are temporary . So why is everyone still taking it?
Of course, this is hypothesi s on my part and a lot of the pedants and pundits will refuse to
acknowled ge it. After all, all the pros use Clomid. Why should anyone listen to me?
They don't have to, but they should.
I was speaking with Jerry Brainum on this very subject. I should mention, Jerry, unlike
some of the self-appointed experts that abound on the internet and the world of
undergrou nd newslette rs, is one of the most knowledge able people in the business on the
subject of nutrition and pharmacol ogy. He's been writing on the subject before most of
these pseudo whiz kids were born. He knows everybody who is anybody in the world of
bodybuild ing. When I mentioned my theories about Clomid he said to me;
"You're not alone. I don't know a single pro who still uses Clomid."
This in itself speaks volumes. Of course, it may not be the best validatio n for my
argument since there are plenty of pro bodybuild ers who are complete jackasses when it
comes to knowledge and applicati on of anabolics . He or she usually hires someone who
knows something, or more likely, can get something . The protocol is then to load the
syringe to the top and keep shooting until the stash is gone. Neverthel ess, the fact that
Clomid has lost its allure among the higher echelon on the bodybuild ing ranks is a sure
sign it isn't working well. If it did, they'd all use it, even if they stayed on 365 days a
year. Who wouldn't want to maintain testicula r size and increase natural productio n while
keeping estrogen low? If Clomid was effective in doing so, there'd be no reason to stop.
They know what works and what doesn't. And they know that Clomid sucks. (Of course,
there's always some lunkhead who doesn't catch on right away.)
BOTTOMLIN E BODYBUILD ING
One last thing to keep in mind: Back in the 60's and early 70's no one used antiestro gens.
Look at the pictures of the stars of that time and you'd be hard pressed to find a
case of gyno anywhere. Food for thought.
The bottom line: If dosages are kept sane, Clomid wouldn't be needed -- even if it worked
well, which it doesn't.
Forget Clomid. For more effective methods of keeping excess estrogen in check, read on.

:shootsugi ere combinar hcg con proviron  que tan recomenda ble es me confundio mucho:loco

adjunto el ebook al post

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« Respuesta #1 : 17, Feb, 2007, 10:07 »

no tengas miedo en meter 8 semanas y salir las 4 ultimas con wins,saludos

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Confio y creo que es un genio un tio que pese mas de 100 Kg, y que me haga sentadill as con 200. El resto, por mucha teoria, me la suda.PENS AR QUE EL ADVERSARI O MAS DEBIL NO TE PUEDE VENCER ,ES COMO DECIR QUE UNA CHISPA NO PUEDE PROVOCAR UN INCENDIO.
garam
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« Respuesta #2 : 17, Feb, 2007, 19:07 »

4 semanas de deca solo?

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-"Come a lo grande, entrena a lo grande, piensa a lo grande y te pondrás grande"-
ChrisREDb
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« Respuesta #3 : 17, Feb, 2007, 23:26 »

les agradezco por sus comentari os QUEEN sugieres que alarge el ciclo a 8 semanas de las cuales 4 con deca y las otras cuatro de winny?? o  12 semanas total?? SALUDOS

:paredpara el post ciclo como quedaria ya que tengo la duda debido a que lei el libro de nelson montana(bottomlin e bodybuild ing) y la verdad me desanimo con el clomid podria reemplaza rlo con nolvadex??

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« Respuesta #4 : 18, Feb, 2007, 09:41 »

1-8 deca y testo
8-12 wins


y si te sobra wins tb 1-4

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Confio y creo que es un genio un tio que pese mas de 100 Kg, y que me haga sentadill as con 200. El resto, por mucha teoria, me la suda.PENS AR QUE EL ADVERSARI O MAS DEBIL NO TE PUEDE VENCER ,ES COMO DECIR QUE UNA CHISPA NO PUEDE PROVOCAR UN INCENDIO.
ChrisREDb
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« Respuesta #5 : 24, Feb, 2007, 00:15 »

gracias por la respuesta  hare el ciclo  de esa forma pero tengo una ultima duda COMO REPARTO LAS INYECCION ES?? ya que en mi primer ciclo use wintrol oral y enantato 250mg semanales el deca es de  50 y primotest on de 250:pared






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« Respuesta #6 : 24, Feb, 2007, 09:22 »

pues el wins  l,x,v
y el resto el mismo dia si quieres.. ..y  cada cosa en un gluteo,por ejemplo martes

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Confio y creo que es un genio un tio que pese mas de 100 Kg, y que me haga sentadill as con 200. El resto, por mucha teoria, me la suda.PENS AR QUE EL ADVERSARI O MAS DEBIL NO TE PUEDE VENCER ,ES COMO DECIR QUE UNA CHISPA NO PUEDE PROVOCAR UN INCENDIO.
ChrisREDb
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« Respuesta #7 : 25, Feb, 2007, 00:05 »

gracias por la ayuda que me han dado comenzare el ciclo en 2 semanas cualquier asunto que ocurra o si tengo alguna duda les pido que me den su opinion SALUDOS A LOS FORISTAS. .:fireevil

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