Los 3 mejores suplementos

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proteina de suero marca protech
aspartato de arginina potenciat or
N.O. xplode
a mi m van de luxe
tambien confio muxo en los termogeni cos xo ya se sabe siempre con dieta y cardio aki no existe la formula de panoramix


Originalm ente escrito por Copi

Ahí si que me has pillado porque ni sabía que se comercial izaba.

Tendré que mirarlo, comentárs elo a los del laborator io y si pueden fabricárm elo a ver a que precio me lo dejan.

Y si que me interesa ese estudio, que supongo que versa sobre las diferenci as entre las forma R y normal del ALA.

Dime donde está o ponlo otra vez por favor.

Aquí te lo dejo.

Si averiguas algo mas postealo si no te importa ;)

Un saludo

A Blood glucose Analysis of R-ALA and racemic ALA

The latest controver sial topic surroundi ng Alpha-lipoic Acid is the potency of the two known variants. This pertains to the newest variant; R-ALA, in compariso n to racemic(or normal) ALA. This latter racemic ALA is a combinati on of R-ALA and S-ALA, normally found in a 50/50 split in common brand name ALA supplemen ts.
In order to uncover which of the two was truly the better one, I decided to measure each ALA’s impact on blood glucose for a specific meal, and compare the results. As we all pretty much know by now, ALA increases the ability of the body
to store glucose in the form of glycogen and also oxidize un-needed glucose for energy. So in effect, whichever one of the two versions of ALA in my experimen t gave the smallest blood glucose reading after a specific meal, was, the one which gave the user the best results in regards to glucose disposal and glucose up-take into the muscles. Fairly simple concept.

I bought 300 100mg R-ALA caps from AF(www.anabo licfitnes s.net) and 2000 100mg caps from Kilosport s (www.kilos ports.com ).
These are the respectiv e LOT numbers

AF: Lot # C06310 Exp: 06/04 (all three bottles)
Kilosport s: Lot # C07351 (Both bottles)

What the analysis entailed involved performin g a comparati ve experimen t regarding the impact of a specific meal + different quantitie s of R-ALA and racemic ALA over a week. This latter time-frame would I believe be sufficien t to factor xzx any inconsist encies, and also be a long enough time period to give an objective enough frame of reference in regards to the performan ce of both versions of ALA.

I performed my experimen t with my blood glucose meter (Glucomete r) called Gluco-trend 2 with the Softclix system. The serial number of my Glucotren d 2 is GH0211480 9 and the type number is: 1861964 .
I also purchased a separate glucomete r at CVS to back-up the results obtained by my Glucotren d 2 blood glucose monitor. If at any time during my experimen t, the values of the CVS blood glucose monitor and those of my Glucotren d 2 blood glucose monitor, were off by more than 10% I’d nullify the specific
attempt at measuring the BG response by the given meal. This was not nice for my fingers. Having to use the lancet 10+ times/day hurt like hell….. Anyways, The serial number of my CVS BG monitor is: 6429796 ,and the lot number of my
glucose testing strips was: EB271A1 Exp: 23/ Jan/03

All measureme nts were done in the AM and/or anytime I hadn’t eaten for 12hrs, as there is NO FOOD present in the stomach after 12hrs, liver glycogen is empty, and BG levels are lowest. This is the BEST time to measure blood glucose fluctuati ons.

In fact, the GTT test is best performed in the AM on an empty stomach(Ask your doctor, he will verify this) (GTT=Glucose Tolerance test). Values for the blood glucose will be given according to the American system: i.e. mg/dl .
This is the structure of each daily measureme nt.

Meal (N) N = 1,2,3……..21

1. Take initial BG(Blood glucose) measureme nt
2. Consume a SPECIFIC food.
(I'll give the exact macro-nutrients)
3. Take the R-ALA or racemic ALA( X number of mg)
4. and 5 and 6. Measure BG(Blood Glucose) levels at the 1 hr, 2hr, and 3hr mark.

So, an example with numbers would be:

Meal 20 400mg ALA + complex(Slow GI) Carbs

Meal: 340 1g 34g 50g (1.0L milk)

BG(Initial): 72mg/dl (Blood glucose reading at the time of eating)
BG(T+1): 99mg/dl (Blood glucose reading after 1hr)
BG(T+2): 93mg/dl (Blood glucose reading after 2hrs)
BG(T+3): 80mg/dl (Blood glucose reading after 3hrs)

(THE ABOVE IS JUST AN EXAMPLE). The numbers are completel y fictitiou s.

My statistic s(Body compositi on), in case anybody is wondering are 190lbs at roughly 9%, at a height of 5“9(174cms). I am a 23 y.o. white male. My diet during this past week was composed of 3000Kcal/day, on a rough 60% Carbs, 30% protein, 10% fat diet. In other words a typical high-carb maintenan ce diet for me.

Ok, now that the structure of the experimen t has been explained, let us proceed on wards to the actual testing.

Blood Glucose Values:

Meal 1: 400mg ALA + complex carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0)

BG(Initial): 66 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 92 mg/dl (+26… +39.4%)
BG(T+2): 86 mg/dl(+20…..+30.3%)
BG(T+3): 86mg/dl(+20…….+30.3%)

Meal 2: 400 mg R-ALA + Complex Carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 74 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 94 mg/dl(+20……….27.03%)
BG(T+2): 84 mg/dl(+10……….+13.51%
BG(T+3): 80 mg/dl(+6………+8.11%)

Meal 3: 600 mg ALA + Complex Carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 66 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 104 mg/dl(+38………+ 57.58%)
BG(T+2): 72 mg/dl(+6……….+ 8.33%)
BG(T+3): 70mg/dl(+4…………+ 6.06%)

Meal 4: 600 mg R-ALA + Complex Carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 83 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 100 mg/dl(+17…..+20.48%)
BG(T+2): 94 mg/dl(+9…..+10.84%)
BG(T+3): 88 mg/dl(+5……+6.02%)

Meal 5: 800 mg ALA + Complex Carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 80 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 103 mg/dl(+23………+22.33%)
BG(T+2): 92 mg/dl(+12…………+15%)
BG(T+3): 90 mg/dl(+10………..+5.56%).

Meal 6: 800 mg R-ALA + Complex Carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 80mg/dl
BG(T+1): 100 mg/dl(+20……….+25%)
BG(T+2): 90 mg/dl(+7…………+8.75%)
BG(T+3): 82 mg/dl(+2…………+2.5%

Meal 7: 1000mg ALA + Complex carbs

Meal: 720 9g 36g 108g (21.0g)

BG(Initial): 71mg/dl
BG(T+1): 90mg/dl(+19…..+ 26.76%)
BG(T+2): 86mg/dl(+15…..+21.1%)
BG(T+3): 72mg/dl(+1….. +1.4%)

(2000mg R-ALA,2000-3000mg ALA):

Meal : 1440Kcal 0g Fat 48g Prot 288g Carbs (Simple/Complex)

2000mgs R-ALA:

BG(Initial): 77 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 97 mg/dl(+20……..+25.98%)
BG(T+2): 118 mg/dl(+41…….+53.25%)
BG(T+3): 94 mg/dl(+17…….+22.08%)

2000mgs ALA:

BG(Initial): 70 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 95 mg/dl(+25….+35.7%)
BG(T+2): 123 mg/dl(+53…….+75.71%)
BG(T+3): 95 mg/dl(+25…… +35.7%)

3000mgs ALA:

BG(Initial): 65 mg/dl
BG(T+1): 85 mg/dl(+20…….+30.77%)
BG(T+2): 110 mg/dl(+45…… + 69.23%)
BG(T+3): 78 mg/dl(+13…….+ 20.00%)


400mg ALA+R-ALA:
(Area under curve ALA): 0.5(1)(26)+20(1)+(0.5)(6)+20 = 56 units squared.
(Area under curve R-ALA): 10 + 5 + 10 + 2 + 6 = 33 units squared.
600mg ALA+R-ALA:
(Area under curve ALA): 19 + 6 + 16 + 4 + 1 = 46 units squared
(Area under curve R-ALA): 8.5 + 3 + 11 + 3 + 5 = 30.5 units squared
800mg ALA+R-ALA:
(Area under curve ALA): 0.5(1)(23)+(0.5)(11)+1(12)+ 11 = 40 units squared.
(Area under curve R-ALA): 10 + 10 + 5 + 1 + 4 = 30 units squared
1000mg ALA:
(Area under curve): 0.5(1)(19)+15+2+2+0.5(14)= 35.5 units squared

HI-CARB ANALYSIS ( Carbs = 280g)

2000mg R-ALA:
(Area under the curve): 10 + 9.5 + 20 +12 + 17 = 68.5 units squared
2000mg ALA:
(Area under the curve): 12.5 + 50 + 28 = 90.5 units squared
3000mg ALA:
(Area under the curve): 10 + 20 + 12.5 + 16 + 13 = 71.5 units squared


Carbs= 108g(All meals where exactly the same)

ALA = 400mg, Area = 56 units squared(Take as initial)
ALA = 600mg, Area = 46 units squared(Differenc e: -10 units squared(17.86%))
ALA = 800mg, Area = 40 units squared(Differenc e: -16 units squared(28.57%))
ALA = 1000mg, Area = 35.5 units squared(Differenc e: -20.5 units squared(36.61%))

R-ALA=400mg, Area = 33 units squared
R-ALA=600mg, Area = 30.5 units squared(Differenc e: -2.5 units squared(7.58%))
R-ALA=800mg, Area = 30 units squared(Differenc e: -3 units squared(9.09%)

From the above table, one can see that as ALA intake is increased for the given meal
(Containin g 108g carbs as specified), the area under the blood glucose curve decreases . This is indicativ e of the extra ALA having an effect on glucose up-take and oxidation .
From looking at the table, one can see a pattern; namely, that as the ALA dosage is increased for the particula r amount of carbs, the area under the blood glucose gets smaller in SMALLER increment s. This is what is referred to as a decreasin g
numerical series. Elaborati ng the series, one can extrapola te the best dosage of racemic ALA per gram of carbohydr ates.

Series(1): = 56……..46……..40…….35.5….
Differenc e: = 10……..6……. 4.5……….……..approaches 0.

From this, we can easily approxima te the next differenc e between areas to be 2 and then 0.
So, the series becomes:

Series(1): 56(400ALA)…..46(600ALA)…..40(800 ALA)…..35.5(1000ALA)…33.5(1200ALA)…..

So, from this, one can see that the dosage of ALA that would maximize its glucose up-take enhancing effects and glucose disposing effects, while minimizin g any over-dosing(The ALA would simply be excreted, with your hard earned money),
would be 1200mg ALA per 108g carbs or 11.11mg ALA/ (g) carbs.

From the table above, one can also see that as the amount of R-ALA is increased in relation to a given specific carb meal(C=108g), the area under curve does indeed gets smaller, but only slightly. One can therefore surmise that over the amount of 400mg per 108g carbs there isn’t really any point in taking more as the area
under the blood glucose curve will decrease negligibl y, and you’d basically be throwing your R-ALA away. That would put the optimal dosage of R-ALA per (g) of carbs at 3.70mg R-ALA per gram of carbs. This makes R-ALA 3X as powerful as racemic ALA if the carb meal <108g (3.7mg/g carbs compared to 11.11mg/g carbs) (Remember carbs < 108g) If you want to nit-pick, yes, you can go as high as 600-800mg of R-ALA per 108g carbs, but you’ll only get a 7.5-9% increase in effective ness(See the table). Hardly efficient or cost effective if you ask me.

Now, as you may have noticed I have also included a high-carb section w/ ALA and R-ALA. This section was to test if there was an upper limit to ALA’s effective ness. What I asked myself, was wether there was a physiolog ical point where ALA just stopped working(i.e. Too much glucose entering the blood-stream.).
I’ll re-post the data:

Carbohydr ates = 280g(At once)

2000mg R-ALA:
(Area under the curve): 10 + 9.5 + 20 +12 + 17 = 68.5 units squared
2000mg ALA:
(Area under the curve): 12.5 + 50 + 28 = 90.5 units squared
3000mg ALA:
(Area under the curve): 10 + 20 + 12.5 + 16 + 13 = 71.5 units squared

Ok, here is the interesti ng part……as extrapola ted above, R-ALA is about 3X more powerful than ALA at stimulati ng glucose up-take and disposal FOR A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF CARBS. Very important this. From the numbers above, one can easily see that 2000mgs R-ALA was about as effective as 3100mg ALA(I extrapola ted) in keeping the blood glucose response curve under control, making it only 55% stronger than ALA not 3X stronger.
Interesti ng. We have just discovere d something of importanc e. R-ALA(And similiarl y ALA to a smaller degree) works best if carb intake during the day is comprised of SMALLER carb meals not one big one.


Having completed the experimen t I can safely say I think I have the dosages of R-ALA and racemic ALA pretty well figured xzx. These are: 11.11mg of racemic ALA per gram(g) of carbohydr ates, and 3.7mg of R-ALA per gram(g) of carbohydr ates; AS LONG AS the carb content of the meal is kept < 108g. If the carb content of the meal goes beyond 108g the R-ALA loses effective ness at an ever increasin g rate, but still manages to be 55% more effective(mg per mg) than racemic after a single 280g carb load.
To use an analogy, R-ALA is like a scalpel while ALA is like a kitchen Knife. They will both work, but for cutting I would go with R-ALA, and for bulking I’d go with racemic ALA because of the cost.


Originalm ente escrito por Copi
Comida, comida y ah si, COMIDA.

El 90%, y creo que me quedo corta, de la gente que toma suplement os lleva una dieta deficient e o no todo lo completa/adecuada que debería ser.

Los suplement os son eso, SUPLEMENT OS, y la mayoría de la gente los usa como comida de manera habitual lo cual es un gran error.

No hay nada como la comida.

Si la gente se gastara la mtad de lo que se gasta en suplement os en comida otro gallo les cantaría a sus bolsillos y su cuerpo se lo agradecer ía muy mucho.

El tema de la comida yo creo que hace tiempo que lo hemos superado todos y que todos sabemos lo important e que es una buena dieta etc .. etc..

Pero bueno el tema iva de suplement os y que quieres que te diga pero los suplement os (aquellos que de verdad valen para algo) convinado s ocn una buena dieta funcionan bastante bien. A mi me es mas comodo beberme un batido de aislado  para conseguir 50 gr de proteina que llevarme un tupper al gym con 25 claras de huevo.

Y personalm ente entreno mejor con un voluminiz ador que al menos en mi caso consigo mejores conjestio nes y menor cansancio que de otra forma.


Originalm ente escrito por aceofspad es
Pero bueno el tema iba de suplement os y que quieres que te diga pero los suplement os (aquellos que de verdad valen para algo) combinado s con una buena dieta funcionan bastante bien.

Eso no te lo discuto porque es indiscuti ble.

¿Pero de verdad te crees que que la gran mayoría de consumido res habituale s de suples llevan una buena dieta?

Venga ya.

No digo que los que participá is en el foro no la llevéis, pero no es la norma general.

aparte de la proteina, EAS, Syntrax y la creatina, sin duda el no xplode de BSN


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